LPS MENTAL HEALTH CONSERVATORSHIP

LPS conservatorship
and
​juvenile dependency updates

  • LPS CONSERVATORSHIPS FOR THE GRAVELY DISABLED
    • LPS Conservatorship Court Overview >
      • Public Conservator >
        • Los Angeles Public Guardian
        • CONSERVATORSHIP INVESTIGATION REPORT
        • CAREER >
          • Continuing Education
          • Public Conservator County Numbers '16
          • San Diego Public Conservator '19
        • LPS Conservatorship for Dependent Parents and Minors
      • WHY ARE LPS CONSERVATORSHIP AND PROBATE CONSERVATORSHIPS DIFFERENT
      • Court of Appeals >
        • In re Ben C- Wende Brief no issue writ
      • Trial Court Transcript
      • Conservatorship Legal Documents
      • INITIAL INVOLUNTARY PROCEEDINGS >
        • Grave Disability >
          • Present Grave Disability
        • Venue
        • Conservator's Bond
        • When the Conservatee Goes AWOL
        • Involuntary Commitment
        • Conservatorship Factors
        • Riese Hearing >
          • Riese Hearing
        • Supplemental Security Income/ SSI >
          • Applying for SSI
          • Documents for SSI
          • Process and Appeal
          • Award Letter
          • Rep Payee
          • SSI Amounts 2018/2019
  • LPS Conservatorship Case Law
    • THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF THE COURT OF APPEALS
    • Conservatorship of Isaac O- court report omission and jurisdiction
    • Disparate Treatment- Conservatorship of E.B
    • Conservatorship of KW- hearsay and jury instructions
    • Peremptory Challenges and Conservatorship of Gordon
    • Conservatorship of Sorenson privacy rights and LPS matters
    • Imposition of special disabilities- Conservatorship of Walker
    • Continuing Jurisdiction/Jury Instruction and Conservatorship of McKeown
    • Hearsay and conservatorship of Manton
    • Conservatorship of the Person of S.A.
    • Writ of Habeas Corpus burden of proof
    • Conservatorship of Roulet- burden of proof
    • Special disabilities and due process- Conservatorship of K.G and Donna H.
    • Conservatorship of Davis and Third party assistance
    • Marsden hearings/ due process Conservatorship of David
    • Conservatorship of Torres and admissibility
    • Jury Instruction and Conservatorship of Law
    • Conservatorship of George H- jury instruction
    • Public Conservator's Exclusive Power to Initiate LPS Conservatorship Kaplan v. Superior Court
    • Constitutionality of LPS conservatorship- Conservatorship of Delay
    • Investigation report- Conservatorship of Ivey
    • Conservatorship of Jesse G
    • Grave Disability Standard and Jury trial notice Conservatorship of Benvenuto
    • Conservatorship of Kennebrew vs Conservatorship of Karriker
    • Jury Trial Delays - Conservatorship of Joanne R.
    • Conservatorship of Hofferber- criminal incompetence and LPS
    • "Discretionary abuse" Conservatorship of G.H.
    • In re Elizabeth R- LPS Conserved Parent with a concurrent dependency case
    • Conservatorship of C.O. - Waiver of Jury Trial
    • Conservatorship of Smith and strange behaviour
    • Jury Trials- ​Conservatorship of Jose B
    • Conservatorship of Baber and Double jeopardy and third party evidence >
      • WIP- Conservatorship of Tedesco
      • Conservatorship of Symington (1989)
      • Effective Counsel
      • Faretta and Marsden
      • Exceptions: Third Party Evidence
      • Exclusionary Rule WIP
      • Fifth Amendment Rights
  • LIFETIME PROHIBITOR WELF & INST CODE § 8103 SUBD. (F)(1)(B) 18 U.S.C. § 922 (G) (4)
    • CA MHRS >
      • Armed and Prohibited Person System
    • National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)
    • Registration
  • For LPS Conservatees
    • RIGHT TO APPEAR IN COURT
    • JUDICIAL REVIEW >
      • WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS
    • NOTICE
    • MEDICATION
    • PLAN OF CARE IF DISCHARGED
    • RIGHT TO COUNSEL
  • BUILDING A STRONG CASE FOR CONSERVATORSHIP
    • POWERS OF CONSERVATOR >
      • Placement Powers
      • Medication powers
    • WHY ONLY THE PUBLIC CONSERVATOR IS ALLOWED TO FILE FOR LPS CONSERVATORSHIP
    • SERVING AS CONSERVATOR
    • DSM V DIAGNOSIS LIMITS
    • CONSERVATEE INTERVIEW
    • HISTORY OF DECOMPENSATION AND LACK OF INSIGHT
    • WRAPPING IT ALL TOGETHER AND CREATING THE NEXUS BETWEEN SYMPTOMS, HISTORY, COMPLIANCE, THIRD PARTY ASSISTANCE TO PROOF OF CURRENT GRAVE DISABILITY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT
  • JUVENILE DEPENDENCY
    • FAST TRACK DEPENDENCY
    • DEPENDENCY APPEALS
    • DETENTION
    • JURISDICTION DISPOSITION (JURIS/DISPO)
    • §366.26 Hearing: Selection and Implementation
    • 730 Evaluators
    • Case Plan
  • New Updates
    • New Page
    • Right to Choose

5/10/2024

nics 24 hour reporting requirement and mental health records

0 Comments

Read Now
 
The Department on July 6, 2001, published a notice of proposals for changes to the NICS which was eventually passed into law. The changes addressed the amount of time the NICS retains information about approved transfers, the manner in which that information may be used to audit the NICS, how the privacy interests of law-abiding firearm transferees were handled, and the Department's obligation to enforce the Brady Act in preventing prohibited persons from receiving firearms.


Thanks for reading Legal Updates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
The changes would require information relating to transfers (minus the NICS Transaction Number (NTN)) to be destroyed before the beginning of the next day of NICS operations (24 hrs).


The NICS regulations in the past before the change required destruction of this information within 90 days of the system allowing a transaction. 28 CFR § 25.9 (b)(1).


The President signed into law, the requirement that the NICS is required to destroy certain information in the records of approved transactions. Section 617 of Pub. L. No. 108–199, the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2004 requires the NICS to destroy any identifying information of any person who has been determined not to be prohibited no more than 24 hours after the system advises a FFL that possession or receipt of a firearm would not violate 18 U.S.C § 922 (g) or (n).



When there are no missing records, NICS employees are able to make their determinations quickly within a matter of minutes. However there is concern over the “Charleston” loophole, which is when the NICS has cases in which it cannot make a determination within three business days as to whether a potential transferee is prohibited, and lawfully releases the firearm to the buyer (in many states but not all like CA). Because the NICS cannot reach a final determination within three business days because relevant information is missing, the final rule defines these cases as “open” responses and allows the NICS to retain information about them until a “proceed” determination is reached or for not more than 90 days.


Initially, the purpose of the proposal was to create a separate category of transactions called “unresolved”; cases where the FFL was unable to determine whether the prospective buyer was prohibited. In the final published rule, the name of the category was changed from “unresolved” to “open.” “Open” transactions are non-canceled transactions where the FFL has not yet been notified of the final determination. In these cases, additional information is needed before the NICS examiner can verify whether a “hit” in the database demonstrates that the prospective buyer is disqualified.


However, to be clear, the 24-hour record destruction requirement applies only to transactions in which the NICS has affirmatively determined that possession or receipt of a firearm by the purchaser would not violate 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) or (n) or any state law like Welf and Inst Code § 8103 et seq. The FFL must have received a “proceed” response for the above provisions to apply.


In the case of denied transactions, records are retained indefinitely. This is relevant as the NICS denial notification act which under the ____ requires that a denial be reported to local law enforcement agencies so in the case the prohibited person attempts to purchase a firearm at a different FFL or attempts to unlawfully obtain a firearm. Receiving information about POC states’ denials will enable the FBI to refer all denials, not just those made by the FBI NICS Operations Center, to ATF for investigation. [Citation] The reports indicate that if the referring agency deems that this is beyond a simple one time denial, they may send an investigator from the office of the DA to inquiry into the nature of the denial.


Some commenters suggested that reducing the retention period to less than 24 hours will hinder investigation into unlawful firearm transactions specifically straw purchases. A “straw purchase” occurs when the actual purchaser of a firearm compensates another person, the “straw purchaser,” to fill out the form 4473 so that their own prohibited status does not bar them from buying a firearm. Although this is illegal federally (affirmed by Abramski) and statewide, the way the law is written, the onus of catching a straw purchaser is on the FFL. They are trained it recognize the signs of a straw purchase, but with technology evolving this is proving to be harder and harder.


According to notice and comment, the authors note that the provision in the final rule stated that this shortened time frame would still allow the FBI and ATF to pursue cases of straw purchases that come to the FBI's attention. When a potential straw purchase comes to the attention of the FBI while processing a NICS check within 24 hours after a dealer is advised of a proceed determination, this provision in the regulation will authorize the FBI to provide records of the approved transfer to ATF before the identifying information in records in the NICS Audit Log must be destroyed as required.


[more]


Another concern raised was that the proposed change would prevent the NICS from referring a “proceed” transaction for a firearm retrieval when a disqualifying record is subsequently entered into the system after the approval. The concern indicated that this would allow a prohibited buyer to “beat the clock” and buy a firearm after they become disqualified but before his or her disqualifying record is entered into the system. For example if someone is released very soon after a certification hearing, they may try to buy a firearm. Now in CA because of our 10 day waiting period this risk is negated but a state like Maine would face possible issues with beating the clock. The NICS does not currently have a process for automatically comparing new history or other disqualifying information received by the FBI against proceed transactions.


Other concerns raised were that the Brady Act does not allow the FBI to retain information about the FFL identification number or to transfer any information on allowed transfers or open transactions to ATF. The comments asserted that the FBI can only keep the NTN and date of transfer and may only share said information with ATF when there is a bona fide criminal investigation. The ATF may not share that information publicly for researchers; only with law enforcement per the Tiahrt Riders Amendment. In relation to CA this could mean that the ATF trace data could not be used for researchers to determine whether a prohibitor under 922 (g)(4) was successful in driving down gun related deaths as mental health prohibitors may resort to relying on straw purchases, obtaining privately made unserialized lowers given their rise in popularity, and buying stolen firearms with obliterated serial numbers. It is true that the ATF's NICS 24 hour reporting and destruction of records would not largely cut down on this type of illegal procurement of firearms. However, with the NICS denial notification act would possibly alert law enforcement and other FFLs to keep an eye out for poorly conducted straw purchases. 




The final change was to require POC states like California to transmit state determinations (like cert hearings and writ of habeas corpus outcomes) to the NICS. California already submits its mental health records to the NICS per state law when the person is certified. The 5150 holds are not reported to the NICS because they do not federally qualify as a commitment per Mai but do trigger the five year state prohibition for a single 5150 and a lifetime state prohibition for 2 or more 5150s in a 365 period. Presumably, if the CA resident were to move before their prohibition were to expire, it is unlike that a FFL in North Dakota would inquire into CA records as the state disqualifiers are only reported to our DOJ and North Dakota is not a POC state. 

Final note: 

In relation to the NICS database data destruction, CA law mandates that the prohibiting category is recorded in the APPS database. According to publications by the CA attorney general, the 5150 record “self deletes“ after the five year expiry date.




Share

0 Comments



Leave a Reply.

Details

    Juvenile Dependency and
    LPS Conservatorship
     

    "giving a solution to a very niche problem you're having"

    Category: LPS & Dependency Legal News

    May 2025
    February 2025
    January 2025
    December 2024
    November 2024
    July 2024
    June 2024
    May 2024
    April 2024
    March 2024
    December 2023
    November 2023
    September 2023
    August 2023
    July 2023
    June 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018

    Questions or need more information?

    Leave phone or email for contact/ check spam folder for response
Enter

Los Angeles Office of the Public Guardian 
510 S Vermont Ave, 14th Floor 
Los Angeles, California 90020 
Phone: LPS (213) 974-0527
(213) 974- 0407
Los Angeles Mental Health Court 
5925 Hollywood Blvd 
Los Angeles, California 90028 
Fax: (442) 247-3972


San Diego Central Courthouse
1100 Union St, Dept 1902
​LPS Hearings Tuesday/Thursday 9am
San Diego, California 92101 
Phone: (619) 844-2700



San Diego
Office of the Public Conservator

5560 Overland Ave Ste 130
San Diego, California 92123
Phone: (858) 694-3500 ext 2
© 2017 LPS Conserved   ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
  • LPS CONSERVATORSHIPS FOR THE GRAVELY DISABLED
    • LPS Conservatorship Court Overview >
      • Public Conservator >
        • Los Angeles Public Guardian
        • CONSERVATORSHIP INVESTIGATION REPORT
        • CAREER >
          • Continuing Education
          • Public Conservator County Numbers '16
          • San Diego Public Conservator '19
        • LPS Conservatorship for Dependent Parents and Minors
      • WHY ARE LPS CONSERVATORSHIP AND PROBATE CONSERVATORSHIPS DIFFERENT
      • Court of Appeals >
        • In re Ben C- Wende Brief no issue writ
      • Trial Court Transcript
      • Conservatorship Legal Documents
      • INITIAL INVOLUNTARY PROCEEDINGS >
        • Grave Disability >
          • Present Grave Disability
        • Venue
        • Conservator's Bond
        • When the Conservatee Goes AWOL
        • Involuntary Commitment
        • Conservatorship Factors
        • Riese Hearing >
          • Riese Hearing
        • Supplemental Security Income/ SSI >
          • Applying for SSI
          • Documents for SSI
          • Process and Appeal
          • Award Letter
          • Rep Payee
          • SSI Amounts 2018/2019
  • LPS Conservatorship Case Law
    • THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF THE COURT OF APPEALS
    • Conservatorship of Isaac O- court report omission and jurisdiction
    • Disparate Treatment- Conservatorship of E.B
    • Conservatorship of KW- hearsay and jury instructions
    • Peremptory Challenges and Conservatorship of Gordon
    • Conservatorship of Sorenson privacy rights and LPS matters
    • Imposition of special disabilities- Conservatorship of Walker
    • Continuing Jurisdiction/Jury Instruction and Conservatorship of McKeown
    • Hearsay and conservatorship of Manton
    • Conservatorship of the Person of S.A.
    • Writ of Habeas Corpus burden of proof
    • Conservatorship of Roulet- burden of proof
    • Special disabilities and due process- Conservatorship of K.G and Donna H.
    • Conservatorship of Davis and Third party assistance
    • Marsden hearings/ due process Conservatorship of David
    • Conservatorship of Torres and admissibility
    • Jury Instruction and Conservatorship of Law
    • Conservatorship of George H- jury instruction
    • Public Conservator's Exclusive Power to Initiate LPS Conservatorship Kaplan v. Superior Court
    • Constitutionality of LPS conservatorship- Conservatorship of Delay
    • Investigation report- Conservatorship of Ivey
    • Conservatorship of Jesse G
    • Grave Disability Standard and Jury trial notice Conservatorship of Benvenuto
    • Conservatorship of Kennebrew vs Conservatorship of Karriker
    • Jury Trial Delays - Conservatorship of Joanne R.
    • Conservatorship of Hofferber- criminal incompetence and LPS
    • "Discretionary abuse" Conservatorship of G.H.
    • In re Elizabeth R- LPS Conserved Parent with a concurrent dependency case
    • Conservatorship of C.O. - Waiver of Jury Trial
    • Conservatorship of Smith and strange behaviour
    • Jury Trials- ​Conservatorship of Jose B
    • Conservatorship of Baber and Double jeopardy and third party evidence >
      • WIP- Conservatorship of Tedesco
      • Conservatorship of Symington (1989)
      • Effective Counsel
      • Faretta and Marsden
      • Exceptions: Third Party Evidence
      • Exclusionary Rule WIP
      • Fifth Amendment Rights
  • LIFETIME PROHIBITOR WELF & INST CODE § 8103 SUBD. (F)(1)(B) 18 U.S.C. § 922 (G) (4)
    • CA MHRS >
      • Armed and Prohibited Person System
    • National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)
    • Registration
  • For LPS Conservatees
    • RIGHT TO APPEAR IN COURT
    • JUDICIAL REVIEW >
      • WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS
    • NOTICE
    • MEDICATION
    • PLAN OF CARE IF DISCHARGED
    • RIGHT TO COUNSEL
  • BUILDING A STRONG CASE FOR CONSERVATORSHIP
    • POWERS OF CONSERVATOR >
      • Placement Powers
      • Medication powers
    • WHY ONLY THE PUBLIC CONSERVATOR IS ALLOWED TO FILE FOR LPS CONSERVATORSHIP
    • SERVING AS CONSERVATOR
    • DSM V DIAGNOSIS LIMITS
    • CONSERVATEE INTERVIEW
    • HISTORY OF DECOMPENSATION AND LACK OF INSIGHT
    • WRAPPING IT ALL TOGETHER AND CREATING THE NEXUS BETWEEN SYMPTOMS, HISTORY, COMPLIANCE, THIRD PARTY ASSISTANCE TO PROOF OF CURRENT GRAVE DISABILITY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT
  • JUVENILE DEPENDENCY
    • FAST TRACK DEPENDENCY
    • DEPENDENCY APPEALS
    • DETENTION
    • JURISDICTION DISPOSITION (JURIS/DISPO)
    • §366.26 Hearing: Selection and Implementation
    • 730 Evaluators
    • Case Plan
  • New Updates
    • New Page
    • Right to Choose