LPS MENTAL HEALTH CONSERVATORSHIP

entry of mental health prohibitors in ca database

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    • THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF THE COURT OF APPEALS
    • Conservatorship of Isaac O- court report omission and jurisdiction
    • Disparate Treatment- Conservatorship of E.B
    • Conservatorship of KW- hearsay and jury instructions
    • Peremptory Challenges and Conservatorship of Gordon
    • Conservatorship of Sorenson privacy rights and LPS matters
    • Imposition of special disabilities- Conservatorship of Walker
    • Continuing Jurisdiction/Jury Instruction and Conservatorship of McKeown
    • Hearsay and conservatorship of Manton
    • Conservatorship of the Person of S.A.
    • Writ of Habeas Corpus burden of proof
    • Conservatorship of Roulet- burden of proof
    • Special disabilities and due process- Conservatorship of K.G and Donna H.
    • Conservatorship of Davis and Third party assistance
    • Marsden hearings/ due process Conservatorship of David
    • Conservatorship of Torres and admissibility
    • Jury Instruction and Conservatorship of Law
    • Conservatorship of George H- jury instruction
    • Public Conservator's Exclusive Power to Initiate LPS Conservatorship Kaplan v. Superior Court
    • Constitutionality of LPS conservatorship- Conservatorship of Delay
    • Investigation report- Conservatorship of Ivey
    • Conservatorship of Jesse G
    • Grave Disability Standard and Jury trial notice Conservatorship of Benvenuto
    • Conservatorship of Kennebrew vs Conservatorship of Karriker
    • Jury Trial Delays - Conservatorship of Joanne R.
    • Conservatorship of Hofferber- criminal incompetence and LPS
    • "Discretionary abuse" Conservatorship of G.H.
    • In re Elizabeth R- LPS Conserved Parent with a concurrent dependency case
    • Conservatorship of C.O. - Waiver of Jury Trial
    • Conservatorship of Smith and strange behaviour
    • Jury Trials- ​Conservatorship of Jose B
    • Conservatorship of Baber and Double jeopardy and third party evidence >
      • WIP- Conservatorship of Tedesco
      • Conservatorship of Symington (1989)
      • Effective Counsel
      • Faretta and Marsden
      • Exceptions: Third Party Evidence
      • Exclusionary Rule WIP
      • Fifth Amendment Rights
  • LIFETIME PROHIBITOR WELF & INST CODE § 8103 SUBD. (F)(1)(B) 18 U.S.C. § 922 (G) (4)
    • CA MHRS >
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The DOJ and Bureau of Firearms (BOF) developed a Mental Health Reporting System (MHRS) for all qualifying mental health prohibitors. The new MHRS was made available for hospital facilities to begin submitting electronic reports on June 11, 2012. Since MHRS is a state level reporting database that integrates it entries into the state's larger Automated Firearms System. If it applies; logically, an entry in to the MHRS also triggers an entry into CA's armed and prohibited person system (APPS). APPS doesnt happen unless the person had a firearm in CFARS under their name before the prohibiting event.

When the Fix NICS Act passed in 2017, it raised a small question of integrating MHRS records with NICS. Since the MHRS is a state database and the NICS is comprised of federal databases (III, NCIC, NICS index); not state, how diligent is CA in getting their MHRS records into NICS? 5150s are state prohibitors but 5250 certification review hearings are federally prohibiting events under 18 U.S.C 922 (g)(4) and would per Fix NICS Act should trigger a denial in another state if a CA resident moved. Because they are federal prohibitors and the MHRS is a state database outside of the NICS database the FBI checks, it is the mandate under the Fix NICS Act that the CA DOJ or BOF be diligent in transfering applicable state MHRS records to the NICS.

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Notice the box that says date of admission or certification. If the facility entering the information were to do such correctly, they should enter each hold serially and bifurcate the 5250 certification notice and the judgement from the certification review hearing as two separate events. If the person entering the information enters the start of the 14 day hold under both admission and certification and does not enter the certification review hearing judgement as its own qualifier, then that contradicts the finding in Stokes v. Dept of Justice.  


When arguing that the date of the admission matters, counsel must establish that ATF has established that it intends for adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution to mean a formal adjudication by a lawful authority and Stokes clarified that entails due process.

The 5250 notice of certification for intensive treatment triggers the state's hold but it is not until the certification review hearing, that the federal prohibitor should be triggered. When read within its ordinary sense, the word "or" marks an alternative indicating that the parts of the sentence which it connects must be considered separately. People v. Frieberg, 147 Ill.2d 326, 168 Ill. Dec. 108, 589 N.E.2d 508 (1992). If strictly reading this, then admission and certification and certification review hearing should all be different criteria entered at the right times.

Given the difficulty of challenge a NICS entry to the NICS denial appeal board, it is key to enter the events at the right time and when the disposition comports with federal precedents. Otherwise someone who may have been admitted under a 5250 certification for intensive treatment but won their certification review hearing or their writ of habeas corpus might be wrongfully denied and going through federal court is a costly time consuming endeavour that takes years. 
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Because they say that a NICS deny or delay can occur because there are records that match an entry with a similar name or descriptor; they suggest that people enter all of the information on the 4473 including SSN. On the MHRS it does include slots for specific identifiers but still mistakes can occur, and delays do still happen with the MHRS being properly populated.  
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This system does beg an interesting question of when the notice of certification is sent to the MHRS and when the outcome of the certification review hearing is actually sent and inputted to NICS.


Of note:

Welf & Inst Code section 8103 subd (a) (1) states that 
A person who has been adjudicated by a court of any state to be a danger to others as a result of a mental illness, shall not purchase or receive or have possession, custody, or control of a firearm. 
(2) The court shall notify the DOJ of a court order finding the individual to be a danger to others or self as soon as possible, but not later than one court day after issuing the order. The court shall also notify the DOJ of any certificate issued as described in paragraph (1) as soon as possible, but not later than one court day after issuing the certificate.

The question that arises is when do these records get sent to the NICS and when do they get sent to the MHRS? Timing matters because under state law, a notice of certification for intensive treatment is triggered at the onset of the 5250 hold, but it is unclear if the notice of certification for intensive treatment (given to patient on day 1 of their 14 day hold) sent to the court/DOJ who then sends it for entry into the NICS indices to trigger the 18 U.S.C 922 (g)(4) prohibitor.

At the bottom of DHCS 1808 form "Notice of certification for intensive treatment pursuant to 5250" it reads "The court has been notified of this certification on this day _____". This supports the notion that on the first day of a 14 day hold (when the patient is served with this form), it in conformity with the code must be sent to MHRS. Now the question of whether the superior court when notified of this certification for intensive treatment; read NOT certification review hearing, forwards the certification for intensive treatment onto to be entered into the NICS indices. This question matters as per 
Mai v. United States , 952 F.3d 1106 (9th Cir. 2020) and Stokes v. U.S. Dep’t of Justice, 551 F. Supp. 3d 993, 998 (N.D. Cal. 2021) the person certified for intensive treatment should not qualify for a lifetime federal prohibitor as they have not yet received due process as the certification review hearing has not yet occurred and even then Stokes found that certification review hearings did not comport with Mai and therefore are not eligible for include in the NICS.  


It also matters in stopping ineligible records from coming into the NICS because California has created many roadblocks for judicial review of questionable NICS records. Because this is a technical error, it could possibly be challenged by following up with the NICS appeals division; however, since this likely is a routine practice among all counties, filing in federal court is the only avenue of relief for plaintiffs.

To clarify, the issue at hand is the timing of sending the [day one] notice of certification for intensive treatment to the DOJ for entry into the NICS indices without patient having had the certification review hearing. Submission of the notice of certification for intensive treatment (DHCS 1808 form) to CA's MHRS is not being challenged as that is lawful under state law. The ambiguity between Welf & Inst Code 8103, Mai, and Stokes remains an unsolved likely ongoing constitutional violation.

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A record qualifies for entry in the NICS Index if it contains, at a minimum, 1 a NICS record identifier; an agency record identifier; the associated data source; the prohibited category; the originating agency identifier; name and sex of the person; and at least one numeric identifier for the subject (date of birth, social security number).

Federal law prohibits these records from containing any information on the diagnosis or treatment of the individual.


  • NICS Record Identifier:
    This is the unique identifier assigned to each record within the NICS system. It like the NTN for 4473 checks. Ensures each record is numerically distinct from others. Does beg the question of whether multiple 5250 certification review hearings in a short span of time have have different NICS record numbers.

  • Agency Record Identifier:
    Refers to the unique agency record identifier number that is tagged so that the FBI knows where in the agency's state records/database that record may also be found. So if CA submitted records for inclusion in the NICS Index from its own state level MHRS system, then MHRS would be assigned an agency record identifier alongside its NICS record identifier and ORI assigned to who manages MHRS.



  • Associated Data Source:
    This likely indicates where the record originates. So if the hospital or CA superior court that held a certification review hearing reported the individual’s prohibited status to MHRS which then sent it to NICS, the “data source” would be either one of those two and would be identified by its own unique code or name, such as a hospital ID or court designation.


  • Prohibited Category:
    This specifies why the individual is prohibited from purchasing firearms under federal law. Mental health adjudications, felony convictions, or restraining orders. 


  • Originating Agency Identifier (ORI):
    ORI codes are unique identifiers assigned, nine-character identifiers, assigned by the FBI to an agency that qualifies for ORI assignment (permission to submit records to NCIC and NICS indices). So the agency who manages MHRS would be assigned an ORI to let the FBI know who is managing the system that sent in the 922 (g)(4) record to NICS.


    Think of these as bread crumbs that help the FBI and ATF track down questionable records that need to be validated.


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Los Angeles Office of the Public Guardian 
510 S Vermont Ave, 14th Floor 
Los Angeles, California 90020 
Phone: LPS (213) 974-0527
(213) 974- 0407
Los Angeles Mental Health Court 
5925 Hollywood Blvd 
Los Angeles, California 90028 
Fax: (442) 247-3972


San Diego Central Courthouse
1100 Union St, Dept 1902
​LPS Hearings Tuesday/Thursday 9am
San Diego, California 92101 
Phone: (619) 844-2700



San Diego
Office of the Public Conservator

5560 Overland Ave Ste 130
San Diego, California 92123
Phone: (858) 694-3500 ext 2
© 2017 LPS Conserved   ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
  • LPS CONSERVATORSHIPS FOR THE GRAVELY DISABLED
    • LPS Conservatorship Court Overview >
      • Public Conservator >
        • Los Angeles Public Guardian
        • CONSERVATORSHIP INVESTIGATION REPORT
        • CAREER >
          • Continuing Education
          • Public Conservator County Numbers '16
          • San Diego Public Conservator '19
        • LPS Conservatorship for Dependent Parents and Minors
      • WHY ARE LPS CONSERVATORSHIP AND PROBATE CONSERVATORSHIPS DIFFERENT
      • Court of Appeals >
        • In re Ben C- Wende Brief no issue writ
      • Trial Court Transcript
      • Conservatorship Legal Documents
      • INITIAL INVOLUNTARY PROCEEDINGS >
        • Grave Disability >
          • Present Grave Disability
        • Venue
        • Conservator's Bond
        • When the Conservatee Goes AWOL
        • Involuntary Commitment
        • Conservatorship Factors
        • Riese Hearing >
          • Riese Hearing
        • Supplemental Security Income/ SSI >
          • Applying for SSI
          • Documents for SSI
          • Process and Appeal
          • Award Letter
          • Rep Payee
          • SSI Amounts 2018/2019
  • LPS Conservatorship Case Law
    • THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF THE COURT OF APPEALS
    • Conservatorship of Isaac O- court report omission and jurisdiction
    • Disparate Treatment- Conservatorship of E.B
    • Conservatorship of KW- hearsay and jury instructions
    • Peremptory Challenges and Conservatorship of Gordon
    • Conservatorship of Sorenson privacy rights and LPS matters
    • Imposition of special disabilities- Conservatorship of Walker
    • Continuing Jurisdiction/Jury Instruction and Conservatorship of McKeown
    • Hearsay and conservatorship of Manton
    • Conservatorship of the Person of S.A.
    • Writ of Habeas Corpus burden of proof
    • Conservatorship of Roulet- burden of proof
    • Special disabilities and due process- Conservatorship of K.G and Donna H.
    • Conservatorship of Davis and Third party assistance
    • Marsden hearings/ due process Conservatorship of David
    • Conservatorship of Torres and admissibility
    • Jury Instruction and Conservatorship of Law
    • Conservatorship of George H- jury instruction
    • Public Conservator's Exclusive Power to Initiate LPS Conservatorship Kaplan v. Superior Court
    • Constitutionality of LPS conservatorship- Conservatorship of Delay
    • Investigation report- Conservatorship of Ivey
    • Conservatorship of Jesse G
    • Grave Disability Standard and Jury trial notice Conservatorship of Benvenuto
    • Conservatorship of Kennebrew vs Conservatorship of Karriker
    • Jury Trial Delays - Conservatorship of Joanne R.
    • Conservatorship of Hofferber- criminal incompetence and LPS
    • "Discretionary abuse" Conservatorship of G.H.
    • In re Elizabeth R- LPS Conserved Parent with a concurrent dependency case
    • Conservatorship of C.O. - Waiver of Jury Trial
    • Conservatorship of Smith and strange behaviour
    • Jury Trials- ​Conservatorship of Jose B
    • Conservatorship of Baber and Double jeopardy and third party evidence >
      • WIP- Conservatorship of Tedesco
      • Conservatorship of Symington (1989)
      • Effective Counsel
      • Faretta and Marsden
      • Exceptions: Third Party Evidence
      • Exclusionary Rule WIP
      • Fifth Amendment Rights
  • LIFETIME PROHIBITOR WELF & INST CODE § 8103 SUBD. (F)(1)(B) 18 U.S.C. § 922 (G) (4)
    • CA MHRS >
      • Armed and Prohibited Person System
    • National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)
    • Registration
  • For LPS Conservatees
    • RIGHT TO APPEAR IN COURT
    • JUDICIAL REVIEW >
      • WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS
    • NOTICE
    • MEDICATION
    • PLAN OF CARE IF DISCHARGED
    • RIGHT TO COUNSEL
  • BUILDING A STRONG CASE FOR CONSERVATORSHIP
    • POWERS OF CONSERVATOR >
      • Placement Powers
      • Medication powers
    • WHY ONLY THE PUBLIC CONSERVATOR IS ALLOWED TO FILE FOR LPS CONSERVATORSHIP
    • SERVING AS CONSERVATOR
    • DSM V DIAGNOSIS LIMITS
    • CONSERVATEE INTERVIEW
    • HISTORY OF DECOMPENSATION AND LACK OF INSIGHT
    • WRAPPING IT ALL TOGETHER AND CREATING THE NEXUS BETWEEN SYMPTOMS, HISTORY, COMPLIANCE, THIRD PARTY ASSISTANCE TO PROOF OF CURRENT GRAVE DISABILITY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT
  • JUVENILE DEPENDENCY
    • FAST TRACK DEPENDENCY
    • DEPENDENCY APPEALS
    • DETENTION
    • JURISDICTION DISPOSITION (JURIS/DISPO)
    • §366.26 Hearing: Selection and Implementation
    • 730 Evaluators
    • Case Plan
  • New Updates
    • New Page
    • Right to Choose